Purgatory Ponderings
Purgatory is misunderstood not only by a great many Protestants, but also some Catholics and I hope that by the end of this post I have gone a little way to disproving that Purgatory is a nonsense and have helped to convey that not only is Purgatory Scriptural, but that that it actually makes no sense at all not to believe in it.
What is Purgatory?
There are two final destinations we may go to at the end of our earthly lives. One, is heaven, the other is Hell. However, Scripture tells us that there is another place, not a final destination, but a place that we must pass through in order that we might be spotless when we come face to face with God. Purgatory then, is a necessary place of purification, because as Scripture tells us;
“nothing unclean will enter it (heaven), nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies.” – Revelations 21:27
Since nothing unclean can enter heaven, there must be a means with which our souls can be purified prior to our entering heaven. If souls were not purified, Heaven would be scarcely inhabited!
Catholics don’t believe that Purgatory is a place of perpetual suffering, otherwise it would be called ‘hell’… rather it is a place of preparation that we (most of us at any rate) must pass through so that we can be purified.
Catholics don’t believe that Purgatory is a place where we will endure physical torment. The sufferings of Purgatory are spiritual rather than physical and at that time we will of course, not have been united with our new resurrected bodies. As we are spiritually unclean, we need to be made spiritually clean. Makes sense doesn’t it?
Throughout Scripture we read of those enduring suffering and of growing in holiness (I’m thinking Job) why is it so difficult , therefore to appreciate that a temporary suffering of our soul, will lead us to the very source of holiness itself?
If this cleansing doesn’t happen in Purgatory where/when does it happen? What if there is no cleansing, no purification? Are all to be denied Heaven because they are unclean and unfit to enter it? What would be the point in faith at all were that the case, because we are all sinful.
Doesn’t make sense really, does it?
Who believes in Purgatory?
It is my understanding that ‘Purgatory’ is accepted by three quarters of Christianity as a whole. If in fact, you believe that those who believe in Purgatory are in the minority, you’d be sorely mistaken. The Catholic Church & Eastern Orthodox Church both believe in the existence of Purgatory (though the EO Church do not call it Purgatory, they too believe in final purification). We must, however, not make the mistake of imaging that only Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in the existence of Purgatory. Some protestants do too.
C.S. Lewis, Protestant Author and Theologian refers to Purgatory in the following way…
“’I hope that when the tooth of life is drawn and I am coming round, a voice will say ‘Rinse your mouth out with this.’ This will be purgatory.‘” – Letters to Malcolm, Chapter 20
Another Book of Scripture thrown out by Martin Luther clearly supports Purgatory (not surprising he threw it out to make his new protesting bible then is it?) ;
“On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs. But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.
They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice.
In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin” – 2 Maccabees 12:39- 46
Is this a new Doctrine?
No. The Catholic Church, since its institution has believed in the doctrine of Purgatory and has prayed for the dead;
“We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthdays and anniversaries”. ~ Tertullian 211 A.D
It should be understood that we can not pray souls out of Hell anymore than we can pray people into Heaven. We can however pray for those who died in unrepented venial sin.
C.S. Lewis wrote ;
“Of course I pray for the dead. The action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it would deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age, the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to him?
I believe in Purgatory.”
Where in Scripture is Purgatory mentioned?
The words Trinity, Bible and Incarnation are not to be found in Scripture, so we surely won’t be alarmed that the word ‘purgatory’ is not to be found there either?
What is to be found in Scripture however is a thread of belief that runs throughout the Bible, which tells us of the existence of Purgatory and of our need of it.
Mathew 12:32 tells us that…
“whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”
What need would there be of forgiveness in the ‘next age/life’ if we were automatically forgiven? Since there’s no forgiveness in Hell and none necessary in Heaven, where would forgiveness take place?
In anotherpassage, St. Paul prays for mercy for Onesiphorus after his death saying;
“May the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord”. – 2 Tim 1:18
If Onespiphorus sins were automatically forgiven him at the point of death, of what need had he of prays or of the Lord’s Mercy after death?
In fact, in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians he writes about the refining fire for the ‘saved’, not for those in Hell (obviously) and not of those in heaven either, because of the mention of suffering and there will be no suffering in heaven…. thus once again confirming the early church belief in Purgatory.
“Every man’s work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire” – 1 Corinthians 3: 13-15
But isn’t the idea of Purgatory all tied up with the Catholic belief in Mortal and Venial Sins. I don’t buy into that?
We read in 1 John 5:17
“All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.”
What does it mean if it does not differentiate between less serious and more serious sins?
Scripture makes it clear that venial sin does not end our friendship with God, we can see that there are lesser sins for which we must ask God’s forgiveness, after all we were taught the Lord’s Prayer by Christ Himself ;
“forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”
- Mathew 6:12
And then there are sins that are so grave that in committing them we are eternally separated from the friendship of God…
“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” – 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Should we feel sorry for the Souls in Purgatory?
No way! It’s a pathway to Heaven that we can but hope for, for ourselves. Everyone who goes to Purgatory, will go to Heaven! What’s to feel sorry about?
In Summary
Once again, I must be clear that this is not a comprehensive or exhaustive study of Purgatory, instead it is merely a brief and time-constricted post that I hope will give some pause for thought to those who would like to know more about it.
A belief in Purgatory does not deny the work that Christ did on the Cross. It is wholly because of Christ’s saving work that we are sanctified, made befitting of heaven.
“But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in truth.” – 2 Thessalonians 2: 13
Thanks be to God for Purgatory, because…
“All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” – Romans 3.23
Without it, who knows where we’d end up?

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Very well put. Thank you.
The (Eastern) Orthodox Church does not believe in Purgatory.
The (Eastern) Orthodox Church does not believe in Purgatory. Indeed, this is one of the areas which would be expected to change for Roman Catholics if there is to be a restoration of Eucharistic communion.
Fr. Andrew,
Purgatory makes sense to me…either on earth or after this life.
Thanks be to God for Jesus, because…
“All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” – Romans 3.23
Without Him, and His saving grace, we all know where we’d end up!
That’s all I’ve got to say on this one Deb…. Taking a blogging sabbatical and real life short break …
be blessed
Fr. Andrew,
With all due respect, please could you clarify, do the Eastern Orthodox believe that the soul may go only either to Hell or to Heaven at the point of death and to NO other place?
It is my understanding that the EO Church believe that there most certainly is a need for final purification for those who who are not without sin at the point of death (ie,most of us).
Perhaps I should have made it clearer in my post (i will edit my post so as not to offend EO Christians) that the EO do not call it Purgatory, but essentially, that does not stop them believing in final purification.
In fact, it is my understanding that the EO Church believe that there are different ‘levels’ that a soul may find itself in after death, until the point at which the final judgement takes place and it goes to it’s final destination. Is my understanding incorrect ?
While you may disagree with my using the word ‘Purgatory’ to describe the EO Church position, and while I may have phrased it badly (as I said earlier, I will edit the post slightly to reflect the EO position), you , no more than I, believe that a soul only may go straight to heaven, or to Hell, do you?
It is also my undertsanding that EO believe that you can pray a soul out of hell up until the day of final judgement (which Catholics don’t believe), is that correct?
Lorna,
I’m somewhat disapointed that this is one of those areas that causes you most concern about Catholicism and you are bowing out of the discussion so early ;-)
It would have been good to have your input here and to have come to understand what points in particular you did not accept or understand. I was hoping to explore this further with you, I can not lie.
However, I do know that we all need a break, from time to time, I only hope that you are not leaving the discussion because of discomfort with the subject matter – I do recall you mentioning you were going sailing though :-)
Return refreshed from your sabbatical,my friend
God Bless!
The Eastern Orthodox do not believe in Purgatory?
Are masses offered for the dead? Is there not the ancient office for the dead in the EO breviary, whatever it’s called?
What the EO lack is 800 years of Latin definitions, upon a common base of practices, which the EO shared for 1100 years.
Do the EO claim retroactively that Tertullian was a heretic, in 211 AD?
What a weird position this leaves the EO in.
Warren
UKOK…please, do not stop your discussions…even if you have to take a break.. those that do not wish to discuss or read do not have to…even if we take breaks, we must recall that the evil one never seems to sleep.
I think today..these discussions are very needed.
This was an easy belief for me. There are many references in scripture about a refining fire to cleanse us. I have heard a deacon describe purgatory as a place in heaven, as the ‘washroom’ of the house. You need to clean up and get into your white robes before you can be seated at the great banquet.
I LOVE THAT KAY! WOW!
I love your explanations… Thanks for the discussion. I just joinedthe Church at this past Easter Vigil, and Purgatory makes complete sense to me.
Great explanation! I am enjoying reading your posts about Catholicism.
Look at you UKOK! You keep going..you see! Don’t take no breaks just yet! *Wink and a Smile*!
hey! Nice post!!
:-)
xxxx
No not discomfort Deb, different priorities right now. Thanks for checking though
and adding this into the mix
Jesus said (on the cross) today you will be with me in paradise. Was this a once-only offer – that He forgave the murderer for his sins … but we have a different route. I don’t think so.
Most of the arguments for purgatory rely on 2 maccabes (apocrypha which we’ve discussed a lot) and papal edicts. Interesting though they are (esp from church history) for me they don’t carry the weight of the word of God.
Lorna,
it’s entirely possible that the thief, due to his enormous suffering, had already endured his purgatory on earth. And if he had not?
Well, I’m sure that you will be aware of the following scripture…
“But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.” – 2 Peter 3:8
If you deem that Purgatory can not be proven, I would suggest that neither can you disprove it.
God Bless!
Very well written post, thank you UKOK.
Kay – nice explanation too!
God bless,
Heather
erm I didn’t say anything about proving purgatory or not – as far as I remember.
all of what we are discussing are faith issues
our faith *is* build on the eye witness testimony of the Apostles who saw the resurrected Jesus and saw miracles done by Him and also by themselves in His name
no mention of purgatory though :)
oh and …
Since nothing unclean can enter heaven, there must be a means with which our souls can be purified prior to our entering heaven. If souls were not purified, Heaven would be scarcely inhabited!
There is – it’s called Jesus – and He says just one word and you will be healed.
His grace is enough. I don’t deserve it – but He gives it anyway. And in faith I accept it. His death and resurrection were enough to free me forever … and to unite me -and you – forever with Him in heaven
which is why I pray – not for the dead who have already met their Maker – but for the living that their faith will be renewed and that they -like Paul- will meet with the living God and be changed forever – here on earth as well as for life eternal.
I don’t believe in purgatory. I can find no reason to do so.
Lorna, you’re missing my point.But let’s just leave that for now, because I’m not sure if it’s deliberate or not… and to be honest, I think I’ve explained my point sufficiently.
Answer me this then, If nothing unclean enters heaven, if you died today (God forbid), do you seriously believe that you are without sin and would enter heaven?
Yes.
I am not without sin – but God sees me – and you – through Jesus: and that is what makes us sinless – our good works and the prayers of others after we have died count for nothing in this respect.
God sees us through Jesus and it makes us sinless? Sounds like Harry Potters invisi-cloak!
Are you suggesting that whatever our sins, they are seen as nothing when seen through Jesus?
and, erm, Jesus is God, isn’t he?
It’s my understanding that the Orthodox Church doesn’t teach Purgatory. We are a lot more likely that our Catholic brothers and sisters to say, “it’s a mystery”. We also have to remember that we go to a place of waiting, with a foretaste of Heaven or Hell, until the final Judgement. Prayers for those who have died before us are always a good idea.
http://www.stnicholas-sf.com/about_orthodoxy.htm
http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/afterdeath.htm
I am also not a theologian, any errors are mine and mine alone.
And, no Tertillian is not considered a saint – he fell into error at the end of his life.
No, they are “forgiven” (aphiēmi) – to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit – as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Our sins are not hidden – they are forgiven.
Ellen, please explain how you can commit a grievous sin and still be gauranteed heaven, doesn’t that give you free reign to sin away to your hearts content?
Mimi, so you would agree that there is a place (state of being) other than Heaven and Hell? And while E.O may not choose to define it, they do believe in it…and that while they may not call it purgatory, they will refer to it as a ‘holding place’ or a place of many levels? Which was exactly my point, that we disagree primarily on the name of said place.
How did Tertullian fall in to error, may I ask?
erm yes Jesus is God- second person of the trinity- so what I should have written was that the Father sees us though Jesus – sinless. sorry for that slip.
Your understanding is (or seems to be) that Jesus’ life – his blood poured out – is NOT enough to wipe out my/our sins – it needs to be added to by prayers and masses for the soul.
In my book that’s nonsense.
As for your discussion on saints – all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God – but it is my belief that they are – because of the blood of Jesus – already united with God in heaven, and worshipping Him.
Not in some waiting room.
And yes God does see our sins as nothing, because of Jesus (and not because of our merits) … because they are forgiven, wiped out — not held against us. More than we deserve and more than we ourselves are capable of – but I believe Jesus lived and died to wipe out my sins and yours.
Ellen, please explain how you can commit a grievous sin and still be gauranteed heaven, doesn’t that give you free reign to sin away to your hearts content?
Well…this one has been covered quite a bit, wouldn’t you say?
If the Spirit is within a person and that person commits a grievous sin, the Spirit works within to produce repentance (that’s what the Spirit does).
Either God keeps His promise to forigive sin or He breaks His promise to forgive sin.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Which is it? Does God forgive us or not?
Either Christ blood is sufficient to free us from our sin, or it is not?
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
Which is ist? Does the blood of Christ cleanse our consciences or not? Or does the blemish of sin remain even after the blood of the Lamb?
I have to admit, somehow I am amazingly uncurious about these kinds of things. Anyway, as I understand the Catholic teaching, Purgatory is basically a stop on the way to Heaven, where there is further purification. I don’t believe that the Orthodox teach that there is purification after death. What I understand that the Orthodox Church teaches is that while we experience a forestaste of our ultimate destination, we are not in Heaven or Hell. But, again, remember I am no theologian.
As I mentioned before, there are some people who have thought about this more, and there is a theory that there are what are called “tollhouses” where we are judged along the way. This has not been taught as correct by the Orthodox Church, neither (to my knowledge) has it been condemned. It is a theory that may or may not be true.
Saints are known to be in Heaven.
As to Tertillian, I believe he became a Montanist, and was not canonized in either of our churches.
Mimi,
That’s right,it’s my understanding that Tertullian left the Church and we’d pretty much have had a hard time canonising him, so no, he’s not a canonised Saint.
I was more wondering about the EO viewpoint on him and I’m grateful for your answering the E.O position. Thanks!
I’ve also heard the explanation of Tollhouses in the past with regard to the soul after death.
It was my understanding that thought E.O do not believe in defining a doctrine of purgatorial refining, they do in fact believe in final purification. If you believe that the soul does not go straight to hell or straight to heaven at the point of death, then to where does the soul go and more specifically, for what purpose?
Ellen, I don’t think either you or Lorna have covered it ‘quite a bit’ at all. I don’t think either of you have done a very extensive job of explaining how a person who has sinned grieviously can enter heaven the day that they die.
Of course God forgives, that has never been my argument. As someone who regularly examines their conscience and confesses their sins I take my own sin very seriously, and my need of forgiveness. It is because I am ever aware of my sinfulness that I am aware of my great need of cleansing.
I may be wrong here, but you seem to be saying that no matter what you do wrong in this life, if you are sensitive to the workings of the Spirit within you,you will be bought to repentence and then because you are forgiven, you will be made sinless and then able to enter heaven at the point of your death. Is that right?
It sounds as if you are saying that if you do not have the doctrine of fear that you will be living in shameless sin – at least given your original question: “doesn’t that give you free reign to sin away to your hearts content?”
You see yourself as being stained, I see myself in gratitude of my cleansing through Christ’s blood.
I don’t make a habit of entering into debates on blogs, I just wanted to make a different look at Lorna’s points.
Ellen, I don’t look at myself as stained, you have no idea of the immense joy that absolution gives – I walk on air after Confession – and frequently without it because I am awed by God’s overwhelming goodness to me.
” (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” – John 20-21-23
I appreciate that you may not wish to become involved in further discussion here, and I thank you for your contribution thus far.
The thing is, that if you oppose my position, then I don’t have a problem with that. I respect your right to think differently, I’m just interested in why you do so. I don’t call that debate, I call it dialogue.
I’m going back to the first comment I made a long while back…Purgatory, place of purification either here on earth or in a “place” after passing from this life on earth, makes perfect sense. God is Just…He is not going to place a soul into eternal happiness if that soul has lived a long life of free will to choose wrong after wrong after wrong and never confessing or waiting till the death bed to confess …it just doesn’t make sense. However, as to the death bed conversions, I would suppose, like the thief on the cross, that depending on the suffering of that soul, would probably tell how long purification lasts…I would think the thief on the cross suffered horribly before death…anyone for hanging on a cross for purification? Well, it just all makes just and fair sense!
Suzanne, the unrepentant sinner – the one who did not recognise Jesus as the son of God – he suffered on the cross too.
What you say doesn’t make just or fair sense at all.
Not that mercy and grace are fair either. Mercy is not getting what we deserve, and grace is getting what we do not deserve -what we haven’t earned – salvation.
Scripture says that grace is not a license to sin. The fact that Paul wrote it shows that it is tempting. (I can do this x, y, z, even though I know it’s sinful because either a) the priest will grant me absolution next week – or b) Jesus’ blood is enough anyway
but the point is that we will feel pretty uncomfortable face to face with His glory – we already do – and there will be purification but I believe that’s part of heaven – part of being in the glory – not as I’ve already said some waiting room.
Scipture says no-one can see me and live – and dying to oneself is part of that purification in heaven. There will be no more me. It’s not a sort of heavenly gin palace where I’ll sit around with my friends. It’s a place of 24 hour worship of God because that’s all we’ll desire to do.
I’m probably not explaining what I believe well – or even accurately- but I do think the RC dogma about purgatory is mistaken. Jesus’ poured out blood IS enough. Works and prayers count for nothing, sacrifice too. Jesus is enough.
To deny that is to deny the essence of my faith in Jesus Christ as saviour.
Peace xx
I don’t believe that the Orthodox Church teaches in purifcation after death, and I do know that they have specifically denied the Doctrine of Purgatory. As I said, we believe that souls go to a place of the foretaste of the ultimate ending (and in a bit that I particuarly love, we teach that all souls are in the presence of God, those that love him experience it as good, and those that don’t experience it as well, the other place). And, I freely admit not worrying too much about it, I just try to live my life in a way that when I get there and find out how it all works, I will be told “Well done, Good and Faithful Servant” Lord have Mercy.
As to the Orthodox understanding of Tertullian, I believe it to be “he wrote some good things, but ultimately was in error” :)
I love you, Deb, and am in awe of your apologetics skill.
Lorna,
The unrepentant sinner suffered …yes, however, but as far as we know, he never repented…one has to do both.
I do not do x, y, and z thinking clearly ahead of time how I can go to confession to tell my sins…it doesn’t work like that for me. I am sure there were times in my youth I may have thought along those immature lines, but as a spiritually maturing person, I don’t put 2 + 2 together like that…I may sin, but it is never easy for me to go to confession as it may seem to those who do not. I appreciate this great Sacrament, but I do go through some “purgatory” just getting there.
Simply because the Lord wants to hear from us should not make anyone feel that they are denying Christ as Saviour.
How can you see purification as being “part of Heaven?” Where does Scripture state anything like that? I am truly interested.
There is plenty of Scripture about works and prayers.
I absolutely disagree with you that they count for nothing…I believe even Jesus Himself taught us how to pray. What would be the point of teaching us how to pray if it counts for nothing, Lorna…pretty strong statement.
Hebrews makes one ponder. Hebrews 9:27-28a
“Just as it is appointed that human beings die once,
and after this the judgement, so also Christ, offered
once to take away the sins of many..”
Great points, Suz.
Love you too Mimi!